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Identity as a Discourse


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RichardMiller's picture
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So many of our forum discussions are really about identity, and we have many theories and much to say about it, which we defend adamantly.

 

First let me address those who insist that there is no identity. I view that first as a discourse, and second as just another identity.  Just look around at how you live life. If you are a no-identity person and need some easy demonstrations, you function through many discourses of identity, and never function as a no identity. In fact no-identity is non-functional in the life that we know.

 

Because you continually use identities, they are your truth. Kind of like “what you see (do) is what you get (who you are)”.  At least you are not separable from an identity, so you might as well engage fully with it.

 

1. Perhaps it is more accurate to say that we are born into a discourse of identity.  We are born into a family, society, often a religion, maybe our nation is dominant in our lives, especially if it is repressive, or at war.  In our formative years we are rewarded if we imitate the prevailing discourses of identity.  Our family want’s us to behave in a certain way.  We must memorize (and practice) the tenants of our family religion. We get educated (or don’t) according to the habits and traditions in our area.  We are continually told that we are the identity that is transmitted by that discourse.

 

2.  Further on in life it might be more accurate to say that identity is an experience.  I ask for some time to pass because it takes some contemplation or experimentation to separate our experience from our discourse about it.  Even if we have given up on the discourses of our formative years, we are continually transforming experience into discourse, and confuse them as one and the same.  It is also very likely that even those primary discourses linger in some part of our psyche.

 

If you can stand back, and one at a time notice that I am not this discourse I am not that role, does it mean that you are really none of the above?  I’m sure not, because you are inseparable from discourse, no matter how fast they change.  You are all of the above, not none of the above.  Maybe it is accurate to say a human being is an everchanging process. Many elements move through (are processed) through that process. Is part of this process to deny or distance yourself from these elements?

 

3.  Fresh experience has great potential to adapt.  Discourse is by and large fixed, and often coupled with great pain in order to adapt.  What are your tools to adapt your discourse, and to allow new experience that is appropriate for today to enter freely into your life?

 

4.  Tension for the most part comes from other people, because we have pretty well tamed nature in our modern lifestyles.  Tension is authored by mixing alternative and competing value systems (discourses) in a world with ever more proximity to your “neighbor”.  Tension erupts with greater force when those competing value systems are coupled with skewed rights, unfair treatment, lack of opportunity, or prohibited access to resources. 

 

It is said that in this state of tension there is creativity, why?  That is because there is opportunity to change your discourse. Let’s have a simple example.

 

"I’ve always loved my family and we’ve stuck together.  Whenever someone is in trouble or sick, we were all there to comfort and to help.  But now there are limited jobs where we all used to live.  Sometimes it’s called the rust belt. Many of us have had to relocate to maintain a standard of living.  Big family get-togethers are very rare now. The family is breaking up, and we have had to digest this without wanting to.  When I pine away for those old days (cling to an outdated discourse) I feel hurt.  Why don’t they help us to develop our area for more jobs?  The government is not doing its job.  In fact they support the forces that are taking jobs away from our city."

 

5. The first tool is to notice.  “I am describing to myself how I used to feel being close to a big family in a more simple rural life, and I am enjoying the feeling that this memory brings”.  “I notice that today has more unknowns, and this reminds me that I sometimes feel afraid and alone”.

 

Maybe I find fault with others, especially if they have benefitted from these changes that I dislike.  Does this blaming and complaining make me more able to enjoy living separated, or does it empower me to return and start my own business that can help reverse this trend?

 

What are other discourses that can empower me to do what I would dream of, or to live the adventure of the unknown?  Maybe I could take it even further and live in a developing nation, and contribute to them.

 

6. The second tool is to engage and take action.  The best action is to experiment with different discourses, which produce different feelings, which facilitate different action paths. An experiment is to establish a metric, try something different, and measure the result.  The best experiment of all is to live without anxiety, to learn the power of discourse to change your feeling patterns. If you are not going to live happily in this lifetime, when will you do it?

 

Happiness in not in the possession of things, nor in relationships.  It is a definition through a discourse.  Sure that discourse is tied to standard of living, things and relationships, but it is infinitely modifiable (reasonably grounded to what seems to be here), to put the best feeling pattern onto the present situation.  

 

The best experiment is to live without anxiety.  You’ve lived the opposite way for long enough.  What did you get out of that?

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marcus's picture
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Richard: …The best experiment

Richard:

…The best experiment is to live without anxiety. You’ve lived the opposite way for long enough. What did you get out of that?

Response: You have admitted that man can neither control the moment nor the aliveness of the moment, which in this case is anxiety. So it is not possible for man to control anxiety of the moment to be able to experiment living without it. Neither is it possible for man to live the opposite to life that happens to him every moment.

Marcus

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Marcus Stegmaier

RichardMiller's picture
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NOT REALLY

Actually my viewpoint is not like that at all.  I live my life by what works.

 

I am quite sure that there is no such thing as a moment, and no human has ever experienced one. The word “Moment” is the result of mind’s marriage to reductionist logic.  “If there is a whole, then there must be a part of that whole.”  And I am within that part, whether I know it or not.

 

All there ever is, is the continuous Now. It is not in anyway broken up into moments. Moment is a false belief that comes from an erroneous teaching.  When you attempt to build a context of life from a false precept, all sorts of absurd statements, feelings and actions result.  Like some people say that “I don’t live my own life.” That is a great way to repeat yesterday’s atrocities or go into the doldrums of life.  

 

The human biocomputer is open to new data and to find a new appropriateness, or if left in its latest conventional wisdom (context) it is designed to keep running that outdated program.  That is the subject of this post “Identity as a Discourse”.  What activity will aid the troubled mind to gradually change their discourse to be more in line with what is happening?  It is all done in the continuous Now, with introspection and experimentation. 

 

I think that it has been very clearly stated.

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Richard: NOT REALLY…Actually

Richard: NOT REALLY…Actually my viewpoint is not like that at all. I live my life by what works.
RESPONSE: You are on record for admitting that neither the moment, meaning the ‘now’ nor the aliveness (action, word or thought) of the moment, meaning the ‘now’, can be controlled by man. Therefore, it is impossible to live by what works. You live by what has already worked and you are conscious of it Richard. Honesty is required here.
…I am quite sure that there is no such thing as a moment, and no human has ever experienced one. The word “Moment” is the result of mind’s marriage to reductionist logic. “If there is a whole, then there must be a part of that whole.” And I am within that part, whether I know it or not.
RESPONSE: Reductionism is analyzing and describing a complex phenomenon in terms of its simple or fundamental constituents, especially when this is said to provide a sufficient explanation. Therefore reductionist logic could apply to man’s existence ONLY IF the entire existence was a COMPLEX man.
…All there ever is, is the continuous Now. It is not in anyway broken up into moments. Moment is a false belief that comes from an erroneous teaching. When you attempt to build a context of life from a false precept, all sorts of absurd statements, feelings and actions result. Like some people say that “I don’t live my own life.” That is a great way to repeat yesterday’s atrocities or go into the doldrums of life.
RESPONSE: The continuous ‘now’ is the continuous ‘moment’ Richard. By logic the continuous ‘now’, meaning a moment would imply the absence of stop or start. But time requires to start and stop to enable different actions or different feelings to exist Richard. So how do you live life by what works, when there is no time in the ‘now’, meaning the moment? Or how could yesterday’s atrocities ever be repeated, when there is no time in the continuous ‘now’, meaning the moment?
…The human biocomputer is open to new data and to find a new appropriateness, or if left in its latest conventional wisdom (context) it is designed to keep running that outdated program. That is the subject of this post “Identity as a Discourse”. What activity will aid the troubled mind to gradually change their discourse to be more in line with what is happening? It is all done in the continuous Now, with introspection and experimentation. I think that it has been very clearly stated.
RESPONSE: You say ‘All there ever is, is the continuous Now’. It is clearly stated that the continuous ‘now’ implies the ‘now’ neither stops nor starts, and time would be needed to stop or to start. So, how could the human bio-computer find new appropriateness, run an outdated program, or change their discourse of identity to be more in line with what is happening, which the human bio computer comes to know ONLY after it happens and never before it happens? It has been clearly stated for you to ponder.
Marcus
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Marcus Stegmaier

RichardMiller's picture
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YOU ARE ON RECORD OF ADMITTING

Marcus, you give me such good examples of fixed thinking, that which I have always been asking people to avoid.  Try to let go, and see what happens.  Maybe there is a fear of being swept away, but you are blocking all growth opportunity.  Have you noticed, my writing is always different, yours is always the same?

 

1. All science is just sufficient explanation.  It is not a knowing.  It is not reality.  Some times scientific results repeat quite consistently.  Then we find that science is also practical.

 

2. There is no requirement for stops and starts in order for time to exist.  That is your mistaken belief, (to justify the existence of moments, that are defined to contain no time.)  In fact stops and starts are overlaid definitions, which may or may not prove useful. Motion is time, not stops and starts. The continuous now is never without motion, hence time is ever present.

 

3. I remember that you refer to science often. Science requires observed results to be repeated by others in separate laboratories.  Those results are distilled into a rule of behavior and becomes extrapolated into a scientific theory.  If you have ever studied those results, you’ll find that the experimental outcome never fits with the predictive formula. Then they do the experiment again and again.  Each result is plotted onto a spattering of results onto a chart.  Then  with statistical analysis the curve of a best fit formula is fitted into that pattern of result points.

 

Science is always a statistical analysis, and never a 100% known fact.  If you continually talk in terms of what is true, you miss the import of science, and you become religion. A high probability is taken to be very practical, and a new methodology and/or inventions are produced based on that result.

 

4. So how do I live my life and manage to do all the things that I claim that I do?  (The point of the above notation about science.)

  • I notice that words form a context, beyond which we cannot investigate.
  • So I keep my words loose enough so that the boundary of my investigations can expand.
  • I stay away from investigations of pure thought forms, which have no tether to my being.
  • Therefore I will investigate a continuous now which is always my experience, but not be interested in the existence of a hypothetical moment, which I am sure nobody has ever experienced.
  • I note that within that continuous now there is life, motion and time.  There is doing and change.
  • I may apply the mental overlay of starts and stops, but I am not limited by that, and don’t have to do it.
  • I will establish a metric, try something different, and measure the results.
  • The metric that I like the best is personal anxiety level. It is either less, or more (or the same).
  • I make plans, (or not) and I go with arising opportunities (or not), all the while applying my technology of less anxiety.
  • I do that by managing my self talk about everything that is within my focus.

 

5. The statistical analysis of these practices is astounding for well being, movement and growth.  It works, for a satisfying life, which in turn further reduces anxiety.  By now anxiety is a joke, that has no meaning. It is an impostor.

 

Marcus, I don’t ask you to believe any of this, to change, or even try it out.  I know you live by convictions, by reading your thousand posts.

 

I do appreciate your posts and I sometimes answer you. The crystal clear example that you give and the polarity of our discussions may convince those that read this to try out what I attempt to so carefully describe.  I know that if they do, their life results will be truly astounding.

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marcus's picture
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Richard: YOU ARE ON RECORD OF

Richard:

YOU ARE ON RECORD OF ADMITTING
…Marcus, you give me such good examples of fixed thinking, that which I have always been asking people to avoid. Try to let go, and see what happens. Maybe there is a fear of being swept away, but you are blocking all growth opportunity. Have you noticed, my writing is always different, yours is always the same?
RESPONSE: Richard, thinking is neither fixed nor moving. Thinking is intermittent and not under man’s control, because man is conscious of thinking after thinking happens and never before thinking happens. This is the reason why man cannot control the aliveness of the moment Richard. If you were honest you would notice that thinking happens to you Richard. According to you, you are a good example of fixed thinking because you ask people to avoid fixed thinking. Have you ever asked those people to whom you have adviced to avoid fixed thinking, whether they have managed to avoid fixed thinking? Man cannot let go thinking Richard, thinking happens to man either wisely or unwisely. Growth happens to the body due to evolution and the mind evolves too Richard, and man has no control over growth or evolution. Your writing happens to you and it conveys the same thing that man can do, and change his life. Honesty is required here; no man ever knows how his life has turned out to be what he or she is.
…1.All science is just sufficient explanation. It is not a knowing. It is not reality. Some times scientific results repeat quite consistently. Then we find that science is also practical.
RESPONSE: Science too, like you, does not know that life happens, and neither science nor man can control life.
…2. There is no requirement for stops and starts in order for time to exist. That is your mistaken belief, (to justify the existence of moments, that are defined to contain no time.) In fact stops and starts are overlaid definitions, which may or may not prove useful. Motion is time, not stops and starts. The continuous now is never without motion, hence time is ever present.
RESPONSE: Time has meaning because of duration, and duration is measured between a start and a stop. The continuous now is never without motion, and this is correct as the world is constantly moving every moment and has no duration. Hence the continuous ‘now’ is a motion which neither has duration nor time Richard.
…3. I remember that you refer to science often. Science requires observed results to be repeated by others in separate laboratories. Those results are distilled into a rule of behavior and becomes extrapolated into a scientific theory. If you have ever studied those results, you’ll find that the experimental outcome never fits with the predictive formula. Then they do the experiment again and again. Each result is plotted onto a spattering of results onto a chart. Then with statistical analysis the curve of a best fit formula is fitted into that pattern of result points. Science is always a statistical analysis, and never a 100% known fact. If you continually talk in terms of what is true, you miss the import of science, and you become religion. A high probability is taken to be very practical, and a new methodology and/or inventions are produced based on that result.
RESPONSE: I point to science on only one fact that is accepted by every scientist universally, and the fact is that every atom in existence is light and nothing else. This is to corroborate the enlightened that life is a play of light. I neither point to theories nor to statistical analysis. I have also pointed that science too is illusory and not real, and you would know this, if you have read my posts diligently.
…4. So how do I live my life and manage to do all the things that I claim that I do? (The point of the above notation about science.)
•I notice that words form a context, beyond which we cannot investigate.
RESPONSE: Have you noticed that you are conscious of the words and its context only after they happen to you and never before they happen to you?
…•So I keep my words loose enough so that the boundary of my investigations can expand.
RESPONSE: The words that happen to you might be loose but nevertheless they form a context beyond which we cannot investigate.
…•I stay away from investigations of pure thought forms, which have no tether to my being.
RESPONSE: Thoughts are a tether to the ego Richard, there is no escape. Thoughts are not a tether to anyone’s being though.
…•Therefore I will investigate a continuous now which is always my experience, but not be interested in the existence of a hypothetical moment, which I am sure nobody has ever experienced.
RESPONSE: Investigate wisely the continuous ‘now’ Richard wherein neither time nor duration exist, but only continuous motion exists.
…•I note that within that continuous now there is life, motion and time. There is doing and change.
RESPONSE: You have not noted wisely Richard, Life, motion and change are surely present and they are nothing but evolution Richard, and evolution does not need time Richard. So time does not exist in the continuous ‘now’ as an actuality in life. Time exists as a concept in your mind Richard. Change happens in the continuous motion which man cannot stop, because man can neither start nor stop evolution.
…•I may apply the mental overlay of starts and stops, but I am not limited by that, and don’t have to do it.
RESPONSE: If the continuous ‘now’ is a motion then certainly there would be only motion. Therefore your doing and change would be mental concepts and not an actuality in the continuous ‘now’ Richard. The actuality is a sophistication of the continuous motion that is interpreted as actuality, albeit illusory.
…•I will establish a metric, try something different, and measure the results.
RESPONSE: As all there is, is a continuous ‘now’ without time, your metric would be concepts in your mind and not an actuality in the continuous ‘now’ Richard.
…•The metric that I like the best is personal anxiety level. It is either less, or more (or the same).
RESPONSE: As the ‘now’ is continuous, your anxiety level should be continuous and the same. Is it so Richard? If your anxiety level were either less or more it would be concepts in your mind and not an actuality, albeit illusory, in the continuous ‘now’.
…•I make plans, (or not) and I go with arising opportunities (or not), all the while applying my technology of less anxiety.
RESPONSE: How could you apply any technology when all there is, is the continuous ‘now’ a motion, which can have neither time nor duration? Your technology would certainly be an illusory manifestation of a continuous motion.
…•I do that by managing my self talk about everything that is within my focus.
RESPONSE: As the ‘now’ is a continuous motion, and your managing of what is within your focus, WILL not stop the continuous ‘now’, have you ever wondered that if this was real, something would be happening while you are managing your concepts, which would need management too? Remember that you are conscious of what has happened which comes into your focus, only after it has happened and never before it happens. The happening would nevertheless be illusory and not real.
…5. The statistical analysis of these practices is astounding for well being, movement and growth. It works, for a satisfying life, which in turn further reduces anxiety. By now anxiety is a joke, that has no meaning. It is an impostor.
RESPONSE: Glad you mentioned statistical analysis of well-being. You very well understand that statistics do not apply to the continuous ‘now’ which is a motion with neither time nor duration. What is the well-being state that falls in between statistics, if not anxiety, which according to you is a joke? The ego is an imposter Richard.
…Marcus, I don’t ask you to believe any of this, to change, or even try it out. I know you live by convictions, by reading your thousand posts. I do appreciate your posts and I sometimes answer you. The crystal clear example that you give and the polarity of our discussions may convince those that read this to try out what I attempt to so carefully describe. I know that if they do, their life results will be truly astounding.
RESPONSE: How is it possible to change or try out anything in the ‘now’ which is in constant motion? One merely has to live the continuous ‘now’ and whatever happens in the continuous ‘now’ which are nothing but limited concepts, beyond which you cannot investigate. The continuous ‘now’ as a motion is highly sophisticated Richard, and this sophisticated movement appears as describable events, with results attached. But the results are intermittent, never permanent, spontaneous, uncontrollable and unpredictable.
Marcus
www.acadun.com

Marcus Stegmaier

angryidiot's picture
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We are told elephants mating

We are told elephants mating is a hell of a ritual with lots of noise, the bull almost bulldozing several others , all forming a ring around the couple , ear shattering trumpet like sounds and so on...you must be getting picture.

but the thing with elephants(which are some of the largest animals around)) is ..results are not known for three years atleast...

Part of the Action

We remain committed to be on the forefront of what will support life, both in your family and on planet earth. 

 

My interaction with you is an Experiment to further enable this vision to be true, and up to the rhythm that you are a part of the action.  

 

Please contribute to make this vision real.  

With Heart Felt Thanks, Richard Miller.

  

 

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