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Scott Kiloby 4th Q&A Responses
Scott KilobyIf nothing exists as an independent thing, how can we talk about anything? I seem to enjoy being in the world, apparently doing things, and enjoying life. Is this recognition you speak of, the end of my life as I knew it?
Scott's Reply:
When you say "how can we talk about anything," take a closer look. What you are calling "things" are really thoughts. Is there any way to know of a thing outside of the thought that arises to describe it?
Awareness is like the pure space in which all thoughts appear and disappear. In knowing yourself as that space, you begin to see that every thought is inseparable from that space. Thoughts cannot destroy that space. They cannot bring you closer to what you are--awareness. And they cannot pull you away from what you are--awareness. Thoughts are just appearing within the present awareness that is looking right here and now. That awareness is changeless. It doesn't come and go. Only thoughts come and go and seem to change.
In a conventional sense, life and discussion goes on just as it always has. We enjoy the company of each other. We enjoy our families and our lives. We help each other, discuss politics, and do whatever we have always done. The notion of "me," "you," "politics" and "world" are thoughts, yes. To say that there are no separately existing things is not to deny thought. Thoughts continue to appear, but when they are seen as just thoughts, and not an objective reality, there is a natural relaxation. There is no more identification with thoughts, no emphasizing thoughts as "truth."
This whole message of Living Realization is about recognizing inseparability, not destroying language or communication. This knowing provides a sense of peace, love, joy, and well-being that is unconditional. It is not based on any appearance yet it permeates every appearance. It is every appearance. Therefore, it is every thought.
This well-being is not based on whether we are speaking or not speaking, feeling or not feeling, thinking or not thinking. Just like space, awareness is ever present. It certainly doesn't preclude using words or talking. Those who think that the recognition of awareness precludes using language are confusing viewpoints about awareness with awareness itself. When you cling only to a viewpoint about awareness, you make it into an idea. Then you try to fit all other ideas into that idea or make sure all ideas are in agreement with the main idea you have about awareness. This is born from the frustration of not seeing where words like "awareness" are pointing. Let me give you an example: If I leave the pointer "there is only awareness" only on the intellect, the mind will believe that means that you should get rid of all appearances within awareness so that you can be closer to pure awareness without thoughts. This misunderstands what awareness is. It is the space through which all thoughts come and go. That space has no agenda to be rid of thoughts.
The recognition of awareness certainly does not take away the sense of joy of being. In fact, it reveals that the self that was living in time, burdened by time and separation, is not your real self. Your real identity is present awareness. This places you right where you have always been--in the here and now--where all enjoyment of life takes place, but without the story of time leading you to believe that you must get somewhere else or that the past defines you in some way. This frees you up to live in and as the joy of just being. In this seeing, you realize that what you have called a "world" that "you" enjoy being in is not a separate world "out there" at all. Awareness is the world and the world is awareness. The separation is seen through. What appears as a separate world is really a set of concepts that appear and disappear within what you are--awareness. There is great joy and freedom in that seeing.
Is this the end of your life as you know it? It is the end of believing that you have a separate life, that you can separate yourself from what you see. It's the end of lodging your identity in a time-bound story and in the body. This is an opening into what you really are and that is where uncaused and unconditional joy and freedom are.
It seems like there is nothing else to understand or get. There is only this not-knowing. In this not-knowing, I don't even know what I am, I am aware of this non-conceptual awareness, but I need to make an effort to recognize it. Often, I forget this presence, I don't even care in not-knowing. So I am hesitating between not-knowing anything and recognizing what I am. Maybe you can say something about it.
Scott's Reply:
For a while it may seem like you are aware of awareness or that it is a place you are returning to again and again. But as you stand as awareness right now, ask yourself this: Is this awareness that is presently aware a different awareness each time I "visit" it? No, it isn't. It is the same awareness. The sense that there are different moments in time comes from the fact that appearances are coming and going within awareness--namely thoughts like "this morning," "yesterday," "tomorrow," "this moment," "that moment." Those are all ideas.
Driving to work is an experience within the space of present awareness. Getting to work is another experience. Having the thought, "I know," and having the thought, "I don't know" are both appearances that come and go within awareness. But the awareness itself is the same awareness. Awareness is like an opening through which every thought, emotion, state, sensation, and experience happens. People then tend to get busy trying to imagine or conceptualize the opening as a "thing." But no matter what thought appears to describe or conceptualize awareness, whether it is a thought that you get it or don't get it, that you know or don't know, THAT thought is merely a temporary appearance within awareness (which is like a pure, effortless opening). Even effort is seen to be nothing more than an energetic movement coming and going within effortless awareness.
It begins to dawn on you (either immediately or gradually) that this awareness is unmoving and unchanging. You aren't returning to it. You are it. In that seeing, you realize awareness is what you are. Everything else--every appearance--comes and goes within what you are. Conceptual knowledge is fine from this point of view. Concepts are seen to just come and go. You are no longer looking to concepts for identity or absolute truth. They are seen as relative, temporary images coming and going. So there is plenty of conceptual knowing that can come through awareness. It never actually affects awareness or destroys it.
The practice of non-conceptual awareness is just a practice. Once it is seen that this awareness is what you are--concepts can no longer harm you. So conceptual knowing is allowed completely.
Suzanne Wrote:
My mind is spinning with confusion over one of your pointers. You have said that we are unchanging awareness. This is understood, and that appearances are inseparable from this awareness. Then you say appearances ARE that same awareness. If thoughts ARE that awareness, how is it's identity withdrawn from them; how are they seen to not hold truth...
Where do thoughts arise from? A confused mind or purposeful intelligence?
I've read about two-thirds of the LR text, but my mind is caught on this point? Also I wonder, where does personal will come from (seems like a strong energy of opposition) if there is no 'personal'? Any clarity you can offer that will break through this morass of mind, would be greatly appreciated.
Scott's Reply:
Let's put the questions as to where thoughts come from and where personal will comes from aside for a moment.
Let's focus on the pointer that is giving you trouble. It may be helpful to look from a background awareness within you at first. Just look from the place that sees a thought appear. This "place" notices the thought but it is NOT the thought. In noticing it, you have the first opportunity to just rest as awareness, and watch the thought pass on by. You aren't moving to add another thought to it. You aren't trying to understand where it came from or what "personal will" means. It is just noticed. Seeing yourself as a witnessing, background awareness can be helpful at first to "get some distance" from what is appearing. There really is no "distance." That is just a pointer describing the sense of being able to witness thoughts come and go within awareness. This is how disidentification can happen. Each thought arises, but it isn't me. I am this awareness that sees that thought. If there is something appearing, you are that which sees the appearance, not the appearance. When what you thought was you--a thought--starts to be seen as something appearing within what you really are--awareness, that is the beginning of real freedom and clarity.
You see that what is appearing is appearing within the awareness that sees it. Anything that you see as an appearance (including thoughts or emotions) can't be the witnessing awareness itself. The awareness is what sees. It can also be helpful, at first, to simply rest as often as possible as non-conceptual awareness. This means to drop your conceptual labels about a person, event, or situation, and simply be in that situation without labels about it. If a label arises, notice it. See that what you are is this witnessing awareness, and it remains untouched by what comes and goes.
As you become more aware that you are this witnessing awareness, identification starts to fall away. Things come and they go and they seem to have less pull, less of a charge. As you begin to feel more comfortable that you are this awareness, then the "inseparability" pointers can be handy. The inseparability pointers are those pointers in the text that say, "see that appearances are inseparable from awareness." We don't want to move too quickly into this pointer. Again, at first, it may be more helpful (if there is a lot of emphasizing storylines, thoughts, and emotions) to see oneself as witnessing awareness and notice these stories, thoughts, and emotions, as they come and go. It is only when we start to get a real sense that we are this awareness that the inseparability pointers become helpful.
To notice inseparability, see that, when a thought arises, it bleeds seamlessly out of awareness. A thought never appears outside of awareness. It is a movement of awareness. It is not a movement of EGO. Ego is a name for thoughts about a self. Thoughts about a self are what come and go within awareness. Awareness starts to see that thought is transparent. It has no solid substance. It is a lot like an empty image appearing on a movie screen. In recognizing that there really is no line between awareness and the thought appearing in awareness, you see that all thoughts are INSEPARABLE from awareness.
The text is full of pointers on inseparability. I would also suggest you take a look at a video I just uploaded on youtube called "Different pointers for different folks." This talks about the difference between establishing the witnessing awareness AND seeing that appearances are inseparable from this witnessing awareness.
My main suggestion is not to look at the questions "where do these things come from." Instead, stick to these pointers. The source is always awareness because no matter how you name the source, the name is a concept appearing inseparably within and as awareness. Once you see that a thought is not separate from awareness, it begins to dawn on you that thought is none other than awareness. You start to see it's all awareness. Nothing appears or can appear outside of awareness. The line even between appearances and awareness is seen through.
The second suggestion for you, as with anyone who feels inclined to do so, set up a time to talk with me. Phone or skype. I can be contacted initially via email; scottkiloby@aol
I have a problem with the notion of spiritual teachers, as if there is a hierarchy of enlightened people out there and I am a lowly, unenlightened person. What do you have to say about this?
Scott's Reply:
What is happening when we see hierarchies, teachers, and enlightened people?
Hierarchies don't exist out there as real objects or levels. They are part of a conceptual overlay--mind, which just means thought. This is how the separate self sense stays in the sense of separateness. Thoughts appear about others who are better, richer, more knowledgeable, more enlightened or perhaps worse, poorer, less enlightened--depending on the perspective. When these thoughts are emphasized over simple present awareness, it seems as though there really are others and there really is a self that relates to the others. When the thoughts are seen as thoughts, coming and going in what you really are--awareness--they are no longer believed to be pointing to real objects, people, and hierarchies.
In a conventional sense, so-called "teachers" can provide pointers to help guide us. Without a teacher--in the conventional sense of the word--I would not have been exposed to pointers that helped see through the separation. So we don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater. We don't want to emphasize the thought "there are no others" and therefore "there are no teachers" in some attempt to sound nondual, while we are really suffering in the belief that separation is real. That is not helpful. We've then turned nonduality into a belief system. Again, not helpful and not nonduality really at all. Too often, we jump to those statements as conclusions rather than looking where the words are actually pointing.
But what these pointers coming from "teachers" are ultimately showing is that the awareness that is the "teachers" real identity, prior to the thought-based conventional, ego self, is your identity also. Although it may be helpful to have a teacher who can guide us to this seeing, ultimately the investigation is ours to do.
I had to take the pointers of my teachers and look into my own experience. I had to see that part of my experience that had never moved or changed. I would rest there on a periodic basis. That was the practice I used. Yet one moment of seeing that you are this non-conceptual awareness may be enough. You see that, whatever you are, it does not move or change. Thoughts move and change, come and go within that awareness. And the thoughts are inseparable from awareness, which means they are also awareness.
Certainly thoughts like "I'm enlightened" or "I'm unenlightened" or "I'm a seeker" or "I'm a finder" can come through and be emphasized. Be easy on yourself. Just look again from pure awareness. If we mistake our identity for any of those thoughts, we are taking separation to be true and real. But in looking from and as this awareness that sees those thoughts, we know that we are not thought. We are not any thought, no matter how profound or mundane. Thoughts come and go within the awareness that is what we really are. This awareness is what sees each thought. In recognizing what we really are, the supposed hierarchy of teachers v. students, enlightened v. unenlightened is seen to be nothing more than a play of ideas. It isn't real.
Looking from and as your real identity as awareness resolves this issue fully and finally. It's an identity crisis, so to speak. There are no separate people. There are no hierarchies. In the absolute sense, we really can't even say that "we are all equal." Even that viewpoint comes and goes within awareness. It's a beautiful viewpoint. I like it very much. But nothing that we say captures awareness. Everything comes and goes. This is so freeing as we see that our identity can never be captured by a fleeting viewpoint. All viewpoints come and go inseparably within what we are. This allows us to play with dualistic ideas and it may seem, in a conventional sense, that we play certain roles perhaps, but through recognizing awareness, these ideas are no longer seen to be pointing to real objects "out there." In seeing through these viewpoints, seeing that they are transparent, temporary appearances that come and go within awareness, they no longer have the capacity to make us feel separate. We then have the sense that there is just casual, loving discussion happening here. No hierarchies. Just compassion, freedom, love, peace. It's very simple.
If there is someone out there that appears to be more enlightened than you, simply notice that the sentence, "X is more enlightened" comes and goes within an awareness which is always prior to the viewpoint. This awareness is what you really are. In that seeing, you no longer suffer under the false belief that there is someone out there that is over or beyond you.
Much love
Scott