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truth in ultimate terms


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angryidiot's picture
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In my language telugu there is a word called vegatu:its a very difficult word to
Explain.suppose we like a particular taste.but we keeping having
So much of it that it starts to get sour.thats vegatu.

Its not something we achieve but its how our body mechanism
Puts in a control..sort of.

In our discovery ....our mind or body mechanism too...
Automatically sets in a balance by making us realise..

That the term "ultimate term" is eventually Vegatu.

We better call truth a bastard rather framing it in ultimate
Terms.

Truth on its part will be more happy for it.its like
Asking a wild Lilly to be a cabbage for we can relate to a
Cabbage..or vise versa

Truth got to be personal ...so personal that the personal dissolves in it..
And a fresh and altogether different perspective on what's happening comes to the foreground.

Now how does it happen. For instance Seeing that there is conditioning is not only just enough..or a start..but could well be..that's the shift itself. For me. Got it? And it isn't worth a dime to you. I have a repository..and they don't worth a dime to you.

You are the wild Lilly and all that I say is the good old backyard English cabbage.

What is it to you?
Ask yourself.....you are goood ..me telling u. U are not only the red eyed green parrot
And the thunder in the sky which the upanishad says...but also the superman trying to
Fly for the first time ..seen the latest superman movie..?
Love guys and girls....

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mtony502's picture
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Another Vegatu story. . .?

Actually witnessing self-talk in action seems to trigger a shift in perception that allows me to temporarily escape it's evolutionary, emotional, psychological and conceptual gravitational influence.

However, to the extent this understanding remains primarily conceptual, I'm like a blind man claiming sight.

So what's seen in that witnessing moment? "Self-talk" is not Ultimate Truth!

Pretty obvious, eh? So why don't I see it more often? You can guess why, it's the same old, same old . . . . using "self-talk" to try to get beyond "self-talk" . . . when only silent awareness can do that?

The thing is, while restorying self-talk can help bring about an apparent shift in perspective, . . . the reframing itself is self-talk, conceptual and Vegatu (?) thereby inevitably leading Vegatu-proned folks full circle back to the land of the conceptually blind where intellectual knowledge is believed capable of revealing Ultimate Truth?

"I know enough to know I'm not a blind man claiming sight . . . but am I aware enough to know I'm not a one-eyed King either? Is my knowledge irrefutable?"

Hmmm . . . truth is so personal that the personal dissolves in it, and a fresh perceptual shift occurs when taken-for-granted background awareness becomes focused foreground awareness? And how does this happen? Individually of course!

Hmmm . . . one-eyed Kings, red eyed parrots . . . is imbibing Vegatu-laced cool-aid an acquired taste? Cheers! Here's to an upbeat frame of mind? (Vegatu . . . interesting word.)

Namaste

Tony

YouTube Channel: Ordinary Consciousness
By: MTony502
http://www.youtube.com/user/Mtony502

RichardMiller's picture
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No “ultimate” abilities

That’s a great opening paragraph that witnessing self-talk allows a (temporary) distancing from five or so influences.

“With that it is seen that self-talk is not the ultimate truth.”  Yes, that is pretty obvious.  What would happen if we continue without the concept of “ultimate truth”?  Then we are left with modifying and easing self-talk with the tool of self-talk, which is a perfectly legitimate pursuit.  Nothing contrary about that.  Really “ultimate” is not a very useful word anyway.  What does it mean?  Nothing, as far as I can see.

An added benefit is that everybody that is reading this will know that they can ease their self-talk, starting right in this instant.  No waiting necessary for any “ultimate” abilities.

You have said that silent awareness can get beyond  self-talk, but can it?  You started with a witnessing that offered a temporary escape.  So that is the extent of the evidence.  Silent awareness has a “temporary power”.  What’s wrong with that?

Another benefit, since we live in these appearances why not engage with evolutionary, emotional, psychological and conceptual gravitational influences?

Then Vegatu might be the little gift of the gods, that brought the chimps out of the trees. And continued easing of self-talk might usher in the witnessing, that leads to an appropriate distancing.

n/a
mtony502's picture
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Ditto no ultimate abilities . . .

I recognize the futility of pursuing anything called "ultimate truth". For me, self-talk essentially expresses opinion and point of view. But that's okay because understanding self-talk, whether conceptually or non-conceptually, is a starting point.

Which starting point leads me to realize anyone "can ease their self-talk, starting right in this instant", no particular “ultimate” abilities necessary. That's bigger than it may sound on first blush.

Rm: "You have said that silent awareness can get beyond self-talk, but can it? You started with a witnessing that offered a temporary escape. So that is the extent of the evidence. Silent awareness has a “temporary power”. What’s wrong with that?"

I find "silent awareness" easily gets beyond self-talk by virtue of being the very background against which self-talk is recognized.

By the way an unstated backstory in my response to AI is the "simultaneity of existence" story; that apparent opposites coexist simultaneously. As such, I understand that shifts in perception occur in mind at the juncture where opposites commingle.

For me "silent awareness" always is. Thus, evidence for 'witnessing' and 'silent awareness' is ubiquitous and statements such as 'temporary escape' or 'temporary power' arise depending on which side of the perceptual lens self-talk is grounded in. And there's nothing wrong with that.

RM: " . . . since we live in these appearances why not engage with evolutionary, emotional, psychological and conceptual gravitational influences?"

There is no reason that makes sense to me not to engage with evolutionary, emotional, psychological and conceptual gravitational influences.

I just find as I "ease up" on what self-talk is suppose to be, silent awareness witnesses what isn't self-talk thereby creating a certain detachment from said self-talk. This "easing up" abets down-shifting or up-shifting background to foreground, personal to impersonal, or whatever to whatever and back again. And in that "easing up" I experience an increased freedom of movement, be that freeing up physical, emotional, psychological or conceptual. To me that's worthwhile.

Tony

YouTube Channel: Ordinary Consciousness
By: MTony502
http://www.youtube.com/user/Mtony502

angryidiot's picture
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Can we arrive at more clarity

Can we arrive at more clarity on this self talk...

But not before I say hello to tony and Richard....right...

Mmmmmm.can we blame..say..red for not being blue?
We can ..we do...and that's where we miss the point...
And the color(s)..in life.

Part of the reason is cause there is this "ultimate truth"
Which we have posited at the end of the tunnel.

Therefore we blame subjectivity for being subjectivity...

But the @s%&### reality is we not just posited "ultimate truth" at the end of the tunnel
We have posited the tunnel too...

So what happens is we keep extending the tunnel...
And so does the ultimate truth...i hope ur getting this...and we keep complaining truth is not reached.its the tunnel we got to do away. ..with a deep understanding that there are no such tunnels in life.. and light is not at the end of a god damn tunnel..but its free and open and out there...

Thank god self talk is self talk and seein it ...transforms it altogether into an ease of being..and then only then the beauty and majesty of self talk is revealed.

To appreciate red we got to stop complaining its not blue...

To me self talk or consciousness or awareness are all one and the same...

That is self talk Is sophisticated awareness..

If we can see and let it be what it is...rather than impose unnecessary conditions or
Non existing problems to be solved or benchmarks etc...on this awareness or mind or suvjectivity...whatever u might want to call. suddenly...

its rich...easeful..energetic....and life is happy or if u are
A morose @ssssss######## like me ..has potential to be happy..

RichardMiller's picture
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Those are some effective realisations.

My bet is that when one totally drops the idea of an ever elongating tunnel with Ultimate bla-bla at the end of it, all moroseness will fall away.

Actually moroseness is a gift, a huge indicator, and a valid guidepost.

Let red be blue, lilies be cabbages and complaining be rampant, it is what it is in this moment.  Just start the process.  Notice what you are saying and compare it to your indicator, the metric of your dissatisfaction level as reflected in your sour feelings.

Experiment with different ways to say it, and notice how your feeling-metric changes.  If no change, wrong approach, try again.  It will change immediately as soon as you touch the belief with the most inflammation.  Then self-talk does become the path into an ease of being.

Perhaps self-talk is not “consciousness or awareness”?  But it certainly is the handle with which to grasp hold of awareness, and find out what is your potential to steer it.  I think that you'll find a great potential.

n/a
mtony502's picture
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Good to hear . . . !

Hello AI,

Some perceptually thorny issues you're talking about here?

AI:"Mmmmmm.can we blame..say..red for not being blue? We can ..we do...and that's where we miss the point... And the color(s)..in life."

Tony: Hmmm . . . blaming as in, "Why can't This be That?" or whining as in My Fair Lady, "Why can't a woman be more like a man?" Or no blaming at all as, "In the realm of coexisting opposites, i.e., "red/not red" . . . "not red" doesn't preclude the possibility of any other color that's "not red", . . . "blue" for instance or "yellow" or "magenta"?" So "red" does not have to be "blue" and the world remains as colorful as it actually is? No blaming necessary?

AI:"Part of the reason is cause there is this "ultimate truth" Which we have posited at the end of the tunnel. Therefore we blame subjectivity for being subjectivity... But the @s%&### reality is we not just posited "ultimate truth" at the end of the tunnel. We have posited the tunnel too..."

Tony: Well . . . (reframing the issue a little), maybe it's not so much that Ultimate Truth is posited at the end of the tunnel but that any Expectation or Assumption is posited as Desired Outcome at the end of the tunnel? In which case "subjectivity can be blamed for being subjectivity" (or anything else) if it doesn't match mind's Assumption or Expectation of subjectivity (or anything else)? And then, of course, there's the added twist of the tunnel itself (appearance) and its locked in Point of View or Tunnel Vision? What to do about this dilemma?

AI: " . . . its the tunnel we got to do away. ..with a deep understanding that there are no such tunnels in life.. and light is not at the end of a god damn tunnel..but its free and open and out there..."

Tony: (Playing devil's advocate) Understanding there are no tunnels in life doesn't negate the fact that as embodied walking talking breathing point of view, tunnels exist in "me" as appearances? So. . . do I really need to get rid of tunnels (appearances) or is it enough to know that the tunnel as appearance can just as easily appear as something else . . . opportunity instead of hindrance for example? How's it worked out for you?

AI: "Thank god self talk is self talk and seein it ...transforms it altogether into an ease of being..and then only then the beauty and majesty of self talk is revealed. . . To me self talk or consciousness or awareness are all one and the same... That is self talk Is sophisticated awareness... If we can see and let it be what it is...rather than impose unnecessary conditions or
Non existing problems to be solved or benchmarks etc . . .suddenly...its rich...easeful..energetic....and life is happy or if u are A morose @ssssss######## like me ..has potential to be happy..

Tony: "Well okay then! Good to hear!

Tony

YouTube Channel: Ordinary Consciousness
By: MTony502
http://www.youtube.com/user/Mtony502

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